Curse

Zeek Aran · Nov 08, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

I did not write the following sentence, but it seems to be the belief of many.

"ANet showed that they are incapable of creating a challenge in PvE with mob AI (just jack their levels/HPs/speed/etc. up)"

If this wasn't good enough... what would make these types happy? I'm asking out of curiosity, as I'm fine with the difficulty of the game. [Slaver's + Ascalon Hardmode makes me happy]

Diddy bow · Nov 08, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

My complaint is that it was a cover for loot scaling.

Yea Making them faster/more powerful ect isnt as intresting as what it could be like better a.i or completly revamped mobs.

*Waits for whinners to call it to hard and elitists to call it to easy*

Omniclasm · Nov 08, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Hard Mode is pretty fun. Not really fun enough to do on a regular basis, and can quickly get infuriating, but it can be fun.

Example of annoyances: Aaxtes interrupting a 1/4 second cast spell with a 1/2 second activation attack. Reliably, not just a fluke.

Neo Nugget · Nov 08, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

I don't think 8 party areas in HM are that hard, now 4 man parties are a different story :O

Government Flu · Nov 08, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

In relation to the normal AI of Guild Wars, hard mode presents a far superior challenge. Most of the people that will be complaining about Hard Mode being too easy will be veteran players with several guildmates using the most effective builds to conquer certain aspects of the game.

While I am a veteran of Guild Wars myself, I don't really belong to a guild and I usually play solo, so HM is plenty challenging for me.

Zeek Aran · Nov 08, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Not a single person here has said something REALLY negative. *hides under a rock, waiting for the apocalypse*

Avarre · Nov 08, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

I did not write the following sentence, but it seems to be the belief of many.

"ANet showed that they are incapable of creating a challenge in PvE with mob AI (just jack their levels/HPs/speed/etc. up)"

If this wasn't good enough... what would make these types happy? I'm asking out of curiosity, as I'm fine with the difficulty of the game. [Slaver's + Ascalon Hardmode makes me happy]

Mob groups such as the Jade Brotherhood are the best example of well-designed mobs. Their strength lies in their group balance, they have melee pressure, ele damage support, rit healers, mesmer interrupters. They also use a lot of AoE to punish poor positioning and play, and thus can be countered by player skill as much as the skills on your bar.

More groups like this would make me much happier, compared to the silliness of just superboosting HM mobs. Although I did enjoy the 4-man areas of Hard Mode.

Omniclasm · Nov 08, 2007, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Mob groups such as the Jade Brotherhood are the best example of well-designed mobs. Their strength lies in their group balance, they have melee pressure, ele damage support, rit healers, mesmer interrupters. They also use a lot of AoE to punish poor positioning and play, and thus can be countered by player skill as much as the skills on your bar.

More groups like this would make me much happier, compared to the silliness of just superboosting HM mobs. Although I did enjoy the 4-man areas of Hard Mode.

Mandragors are also an example of a fairly thought out team setup. Fevered Dreams Mesmer + every condition in the game.

Edit: GW:EN versions, not Nightfall versions.

Zeek Aran · Nov 08, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Things that have come up so far: Balanced enemy groups and advanced AI.

Anything else that would 'improve' the difficulty in a different way than what ANET has done?

I MP I · Nov 08, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

"ANet showed that they are incapable of creating a challenge in PvE with mob AI (just jack their levels/HPs/speed/etc. up)"

Imo, better skills in the AI skill bars (dual profession AI was a good start) would be far more interesting than raising their attributes, levels, health, energy or speed up to absurd levels. Its something I'd like to go up against. Personally I have no problem with the current state of HM. Hell, there are no problems with a group or 8 +/- people with ursan blessing as their elite wiping everything out in a map.

Omniclasm · Nov 08, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

Things that have come up so far: Balanced enemy groups and advanced AI.

Anything else that would 'improve' the difficulty in a different way than what ANET has done?

Random Spawns, Random Patrols, Random Skillbars on monsters.

Onarik Amrak · Nov 08, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

Not a single person here has said something REALLY negative. *hides under a rock, waiting for the apocalypse*

Stop trying to bait them. You know they're just waiting to leap out of the shadows.

kobey · Nov 08, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

hmm seems like a little late to be complaining about hard mode after it is out for months
but yeah, i do share wat u feel, in the sense that hard mode is more of just steroids taking foes who move faster, attack faster etc.
but well, you are given the option to play HM and NM, so there aren't any obligations

Corwin_Andros · Nov 08, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Just really getting into widescale HM myself. Not really counting my monk farming Hydras in HM.. it's easier than NM for that purpose. So far the only thing I've found really frustrating in HM has been keeping up with Prince Leeroy in the Ruins of Surmia. Sure they buffed his level and attributes accordingly, but unfortunately he still does his thing and tries to commit Charr assisted suicide at every opportunity. Thankfully I managed to H/H that mission last night after many failed attempts, including a few with PUGs.

lol.. I popped back into the starting point and asked if anybody could rez him just so I could kill him myself.

Snow Bunny · Nov 08, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Nugget

I don't think 8 party areas in HM are that hard, now 4 man parties are a different story :O

I know so many people feel this way, but truthfully, I've had the complete opposite experience. I actually eased into HM through 4-man areas; better micro-management of my team, learning the right amount of passive defense + damage/spike capability. Doing the Ascalon missions were much easier for me than the 8-man missions later in Proph, and other 8-man in NF/Fac

I remember trying to just waltz through Vizunah square HM and getting thrashed. I went immediately to Ascalon and breezed through it.

HM gets difficult for me these days only with stuff like Torment creatures, and that Disk of Chaos thing.

It's relatively true though. The charr/stone summit with dual professions in EotN were nice, but they didn't use their skill bars well. They didn't kite, unlike the henchmen learned (finally) to do. I watched several flameshielders (?) put up Aegis at the same time, instead of chaining it, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the axe charr in EotN use D. Riposte.

Sure, their inherent abilities are better, health bars higher, damage, etc. But their AI isn't, which allows them to be triumphed over by broken PvE skills and player skill.

Master Sword Keeper · Nov 08, 2007, 03:57 AM // 03:57

HM areas hard?

*Chucks on Prot spirit* Leave em to me!

ARGH! Enchant kill... Damn.

Oh wait i know *grabs his wammo* Brg it on.

cellardweller · Nov 08, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Give the AI better targeting and pathing routines and you'd actually get a hard mode.

Orinn · Nov 08, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

The difficulty is about right, but the design of HM was just mroe of the same from ANet. Rather than boosting mob's skill bars and synergy, they just went with bigger numbers for difficulty. It was done in the first elite areas, UW and FoW, until people started to figure out how to beat them. DoA was nearly instant death for entire balanced groups because ANet simply gave the mobs supercharged damage and environmental advantages. Hard Mode is more of the same: forget making it more challenging, just boost the numbers on the enemies and call it good. It seems lazy, is my problem with it. Sure, and encounter is harder when Borguss Blisterback and all of hids Flame Djinn pals can spam searing flames at half casting time, 150% damage (doubled again for the boss,) but it's not actually HARD. The mobs are no smarter, no more of a challenge to your character, they just hit harder and move faster.

It's not FUN to beat up a boss in hard mode that you can beat in normal mode. It takes more time, and there is usually more risk, but no NEW tactics have to evolve, no new challenges pop up. Once you can deal with the extra damage, then all it is is a longer fight that plays out the exact same way as it would in Normal mode. I've been slowly vanquishing areas, and it's tedious, not fun.

Then again, I personally have a problem when the designers have rules in place for players, and then allow everyone BUT the players to break all the rules. Fighting an entire area of level 24-30, massive-damage, perma-speed boosted mobs that have every numerical advantage the devs could give them just seems to me like the devs couldn't create a clever or realistic challenge, so they took the easy way out and made the numbers bigger. I will call it a lazy design to deliberately handicap players, or to deliberately set the power of soemthing beyond what players can reach.

The Jade Brotherhood are a fine example: besides the bosses, the max level for them is 20 in normal mode. They usually come in groups of 2-4. When larger groups are encountered, say a full group of 8 in mixed professions, they are a suitable challenge for a group of 8 level 20 players. It CAN be done, but simply making a group of level 28 mobs with increased attack speed, run speed and damage, doesn't show challenge by good design, it shows challenge by bigger numbers.

Longasc · Nov 08, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08

GW PvE needs more variety indeed.

This is not a problem of hard mode though, which can in general be described by using Protective Spirit + Weakness (Enfeebling Blood e.g.) more often than in normal mode.

I think the solution to this is to scrap GW PvP, it has not become the big hit as it was supposed to, and devote the resources to developing a better PvE gaming experience.

Instead I see a trend of dumbing down PvE with consumables (new word for potions, something they wanted to get away from in Diablo I+II) and making mobs easier so that everyone can have his socialist feeling of success.
GW PvP is also going to become more "casual friendly" and have more game modes for the less competitive kind of gamer.

In the end you have the whole package smell like ... GW2. :>

**Marty Silverblade** · Nov 08, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

I dislike how certain professions seem to be at a disadvantage in certain situations, for example, there may not be room for a lesser used profession in a 4 man party, forcing them to H/H it. Consumables make it a case of 'I'm a W/Mo with Legendary Guardian and Legendary Vanquisher and I'm so pro with my Mending' all because consumables make Hard Mode a How Rich Are You Mode (HRAYM). I dislike how Anet just throws in a large mob and calls it difficulty. Just run a W/P God Mode and cruise through it; I don't much see the point when there are such broken skills out there.